Welcome Paulapollos! Sorry to hear about your rough treatment. Look forward to your contributions and hearing more of your story when you're comfortable.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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310
Mill Hill Disfellowshippings
by BorgHater ina few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
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32
Two mounting proofs for Armageddon in 2034
by slimboyfat inas mentioned by narkissos a couple months ago, doubting bro yesterday, and no doubt others.
is this where they are headed?
i say "evidently" it is.
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Doubting Bro
The thing is that date setting is the only thing that keeps JWs motivated. I was just a young kid during the 75 debacle but I do remember the energy and excitment thinking that the great trib was going to start any day now (fear too, but that's another story). I also remember the argument about how Adam was created 6000 before 1975 but we didn't know when Eve was created or when they officially sinned. To me, the generation teaching was the primary argument that I (stupidly) believed meant that the world was ending soon. It fit together so nicely.
I recall giving a PT about the last days (early 90s) and even using the argument that we were almost at the 80 year anniversary of 1914 and that generation didn't have many left.
The change in 95 took the wind out of 1) the sails of folks that stuck around after 75 (like my parents that were in their 20s at the time) and 2) the born-ins like me who suddenly realized that we had better plan on getting a real career, get married, have kids and try to live a normal life because there was no longer a end date in sight.
The effects of having no date took a while to manifest but compare the "zeal" of your average JW 20 years ago to the average JW now. There is no comparison! It's obvious to me that leadership needs to fire up the members in some way. The best way to do that is to set a date. While I'm not sure they'll make the same mistake they made before, but I would be willing to put some money on it. After 15 years of dwindling committment levels in first world countries (where the donations come from), I firmly believe the WT leadership is aware of the problem. The berating talks, guilt inducing WT studies, pressure from the CO & DOs, placement of MTS grads, none have really worked.
Sure, they've had growth but its not translated into enough cash to keep the status quo. So, they've cut expenses to the bone (with more cuts on the way I would imagine). They have to figure out a way to motivate the average JW in the developed world to give more. In my opinion, there are 2 ways they can go:
1 - Mainstream - drop shunning, make blood conscious matter, focus less on field service and more on community projects (sort of like the LDS), turn Bethel into the JW version of BYU, push getting a good education instead of vilifying college, etc. Still keep the whole end time thing like others have but make it much more nonspecific, keep the no trinity, no hell, maybe no holidays. Institute tithing at some point so they can reasonably budget and make a go of it. Sure, you'd lose some members but I would bet you'd keep more born-ins who view JWism as just another religion. You would likely increase cash flow.
2 - Set an end date at 2034 and attempt to repeat the amount of growth they got in the 20 years prior to 1975. Sure, 2035 will roll around and the world will still be kicking along and there will be fall out from another false prophesy but if you could increase the numbers from 7 million to 14 million, who cares if you lose even 25%. It's not like they haven't done this before.
If they keep going the way they do, I see a slow death by a thousand cuts. #1 would make the most sense from a business prospective but I don't see them resisting #2. Time will tell.
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Confused about the current generation teaching? Get your Watchtower Generation chart
by truthseeker inenjoy!.
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http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4126/generationh.jpg.
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Doubting Bro
Terrific work. I had forgotten about the various subtle changes to the "those that saw 1914" definition which is the only one that makes any sense. The problem is that they can't change the beginning of the last days so the only way they can work around the obvious fact that the end they predicted hasn't come yet is to change the definition of a simple word.
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So, how much $$ would you anonymously pledge?
by Open mind ina letter dated december 7, 2009 to all congregations (not sure if it was just the us branch or not) said that the elders should ask the publishers to submit slips of paper anonymously with an amount they would be willing to contribute each month towards either:.
a: repaying the outstanding, local, kingdom hall loan, or.
b: if there is no local loan, contributing to the kingdom hall construction fund.. .
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Doubting Bro
This sure does smell like a step in the tithing direction! Take that quote from Russell about not begging for money and turn that in!
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385
NEW GENERATION DEFINED -- April 15, 2010 Watchtower
by Ultimate Reality infrom jw.org, here is the new definition of the generation from the april 15, 2010 watchtower.. .
article: holy spirits role in the outworking of jehovahs purpose.
13 third, holy spirit is at work in bringing bible.
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Doubting Bro
wow. The 08 definition uncoupled "this generation" from the last days since my understanding of the WTS definition of generation was simply "the annointed". So as long as there are JW "annointed" left (which shouldn't be a problem given the huge increase this year) then they were ok. While this worked well from the standpoint of explaining why the end hadn't come yet, it was even worse from the standpoint of creating any urgency. Really, the 95 change took the air out of the movement although not as bad as the 75 debacle.
So, I think what this new definition does is attempts to put another deadline for the end. I swear I think they are attempting to set up a new end date of 2034 (comparing Noah's "preaching" for 120 years prior to the flood with the 120 anniversary of 1914). They've already hinted at comparing Noah's 120 of preaching to JW activity today.
Still, I think they would have been better off with the 08 definition because it was flexible enough to spin away.
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Massive earthquake. Haiti doesn't get a break.
by BurnTheShips inport-au-prince (reuters) - a major earthquake hit the impoverished country of haiti on tuesday, collapsing buildings in the capital port-au-prince and burying residents under rubble, a reuters reporter in the city said.. he said he saw dozens of dead and injured people in the rubble, which blocked streets in the city.. the epicenter of the quake was located inland, only 10 miles from the capital port-au-prince and was very shallow at a depth of only 6.2 miles.. it prompted a tsunami watch for parts the caribbean, the pacific tsunami warning center said on tuesday.. "everything started shaking, people were screaming, houses started collapsing ... it's total chaos," reuters reporter joseph guyler delva said.
"i saw people under the rubble, and people killed," he added.. a local employee for the u.s. charity food for the poor reported seeing a five-storey building collapse in port-au-prince, a spokeswoman for the group, kathy skipper, told reuters.. another food for the poor employee said there were more houses destroyed than standing in delmas road, a major thoroughfare in the city.. panic-stricken residents filled the streets desperately trying to dig people from rubble or seeking missing relatives as dark fell shortly after the quake.. "people were screaming 'jesus, jesus' and running in all directions," delva said.. a major earthquake, of magnitude 7 or higher, is capable of causing widespread and heavy damage.
there was no immediate report of damage or casualties.. the tsunami center said the watch was in effect for haiti, the neighboring dominican republic, with which it shares the island of hispaniola, cuba and the bahamas.. "a destructive widespread tsunami threat does not exist based on historical earthquake and tsunami data," the center said.
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Doubting Bro
RR - I hope your family is well. Strength to you & your family.
The pictures are almost overwhelming and I heard on the radio some reports that the death toll could push 500,000. This is a terrible combination of a powerful natural force hitting a very crowded area with poor construction. Let's hope that the relief efforts can help save some of the folks still trapped.
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If the Watchtower truly collapsed, how would you deal with your JW relatives?
by nicolaou inimagine the best case scenario.
the watchtower society implodes from within even making final printed admissions that it is voluntarily dismantling it's mission and legally dissolving the corporations.
oh happy day!
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Doubting Bro
First, I don't see that happening so suddenly. But, if it did, I could see some local elders who would seize the opportunity and start a spin-off JW religion. In time, it would pick up a percentage of former JWs that would refuse to believe the WTS was wrong. It would be spun into some sort of prophetic fulfillment and a new cult would be born.
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I Believe McNabb Is Tired
by snowbird inhe should move over and allow room for michael vick.. did anyone see vick's touchdown pass against dallas in the playoff?.
awesome!.
a little something from vick's bio: .
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Doubting Bro
babygirl30 - at least they made the playoffs! My skins were dreadful this year.
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The Assembly Experiences - Standard Format
by sd-7 inmatthew 6:1: "take good care not to practice your righteousness in front of men in order to be observed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your father who is in the heavens.".
"now we'd like to call to the platform brother so-and-so, a [let's face it, capital letters should be used] regular pioneer and elder in the blah-blah-blah congregation.
brother so-and-so, what helped you to put kingdom interests first?".
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Doubting Bro
Exactly except what was left out of the experience is that what actually happened was the employer approached all employees and told them that everyone's hours were going to be cut to part-time to avoid having to do layoffs. Or that Brother So & So is still working part time at that employer but also has another part time position to make ends meet.
Those experiences in additon to being highly scripted are also "enhanced" shall we say. The worst example I've ever seen was a brother who had a "high stress" job and no time for field service. So he prayed to be able to study with someone and "bring them into the truth". The next year, his student got baptized. He repeated the request 2 more times and each time the student got baptized. The rest of the story I found out later because I was talking to him (Both of us worked in administration) was that the students in question were actually HIS CHILDREN! I was floored and told him I thought they were folks he met in fs since that was the implication. He was embarrased because he thought it was misleading but that's what the DO wanted so that's how he told it.
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I Believe McNabb Is Tired
by snowbird inhe should move over and allow room for michael vick.. did anyone see vick's touchdown pass against dallas in the playoff?.
awesome!.
a little something from vick's bio: .
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Doubting Bro
I'd take McNabb over Vick anyday, its really not even close. The Eagles would be insane to get rid of McNabb unless they plan on doing major rebuilding and I don't think they need to do that.
If I were the Eagles, I trade Vick to some sucker for a midround draft pick. I'm sure the Skins would jump on that although Shanny I'm sure would try to block it.
Campbell is an adequate QB but I still think he has trouble quickly reading defenses and needs to speed up his release. If he's on a team where he doesn't have to carry the load, he ok. Otherwise (see this year). he's in trouble. I really wanted him to succeed since the Skins traded up in the 1st round to get him but at this point, I don't think he was worth it. They need to draft some o-linemen and then pick up a qb next year.